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re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

I think Lutheran-WELS
https://wels.net/about-wels/what-we-believe/#toggle-id-20-closed

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...


It could be WELS. There are other groups which practice infant "baptism", such as Catholics, Orthodox, some UMC churches (not all) -- maybe more.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

"Luther was an Augustinian. Augustine had his beliefs in our ultimate destiny having already been decided, beyond our own action, PRIOR TO being saved. It is a pagan, fatalistic concept. He retained those beliefs when he was converted and mingled them with Christianity. "

I am finding the lack of knowledge of Lutheranism (and the assertion of many that they "Know" Lutheranism and Luther's beliefs) amazing.

Martin Luther DID NOT believe in predestination. The Lutheran Church DOES NOT teach predestination. It is a massive leap to go from Arminianism and the teachings of Pelagius to predesination. Calvin taught predestination, and Luther had a HUGE problem with Calvin and his teaching on the matter.

I'm sorry you don't understand it, but you are way off the mark here.

Also, I see a lot of people assuming and speculating on what denomination Lizabeth belongs to. If she wants you to know, she'll tell you. Show her some respect and stop with the speculation. And given the assumptions and misinformation I see about some faiths batted about I can see how people would be reluctant to disclose the denomination they belong to.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...


Show her some respect and stop with the speculation.
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I haven't speculated about anything. I just mentioned some groups that believe in infant "baptism" because I know there are more than one. I've heard this is true of (some?) Presbyterians. A good friend grew up in a PCA (has been a Baptist all her married life), so she would know.

(Some denominations do have baby dedications, but that's a completely different thing, as the article from Got Questions pointed out. Those parents know their dc will have to choose for themselves when they are old enough to do so.)

I also haven't speculated about beliefs. The beliefs I've cited have been told to me by those who believe and practice them. One poster challenged me about one belief, and another poster posted multiple links to show that, yes, that is indeed a belief of that group. It's not unusual for some beliefs not to be broadcast to the general public.

This post was edited on Dec 30, 2017 02:14 PM

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

There is probably a lot of variance among churches and branches of denominations. I used to go to a Lutheran church, still have Lutheran friends, and have read Luther himself for years. But there is definitely a lot of variance -- just as there is among Baptists, for example.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

Show her some respect and stop with the speculation.



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Speculation = disrespect to you?

It very well may to you, but it does not universally equal disrespect to all.

Speaking for myself alone, IF I did not respect someone here, I would not even take the time to read their thread, let alone use my valuable time typing replies.

Assumptions about motive and intent are inherently difficult at any time and place, but especially on message boards such as these.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone!!

I spent many years in a Baptist church that was Calvinist, but believed in adult baptism. But, also have heard the Calvinist argument for infant baptism, being raised Presbyterian, and having been baptized as a baby. As an adult, after leaving the Presbyterian church, I was baptized. Anyway, I recognize all of Lizbeth's "arguments" (can't think of a better word) as being Calvinist, or Reformed, with infant baptism.

I've been thinking a lot about all the different beliefs within Christian circles, and how everyone can use the Bible to back them up. Here's what I know for a fact, NO ONE has it all right.

And I agree with the quote that Kanda posted. Having spent 10 years in a church that became very hard core Calvinist, I had never seen such arrogance and pride in "correct" doctrine. They gave lip service to the fact that you didn't have to all agree, but boy did they smirk, and privately put down anyone who disagreed with the 5 points. And I have no doubt that it can be just as bad with Armenians. Where is the love of Christ in that?

I have enjoyed reading the opposing points in this thread. And the older I get, the more I am sure that *I* don't have it all figured out, and can learn from opposing views.


re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

Having spent 10 years in a . . . that became . . ., I had never seen such arrogance and pride in "correct" . . . . They gave lip service to the fact that you didn't have to all agree, but boy did they smirk, and privately put down anyone who disagreed with the . . . . And I have no doubt that it can be just as bad with . . . .



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It's been my experience that it's more of a human drawback than anything specifically related to doctrines, denominations, etc.

Fwiw, I've met vegans and vegetarians who acted like that; Buddhists; long distance runners; yoga practitioners; writers and poets and artists; bakers, cooks; Montessori teachers; Apple owners; etc. etc.

Some people, when they specialize, start acting that way. ;)
?? Oh well. (I find I can always learn something, but just disregard the overzealousness.)

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