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re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

gr8tful I didn't answer your question because I cannot have a 4 way conversation so I just took the first post and read it and commented. Nothing personal I just cannot live here all day in virtual world.

:)

And what of my questions?

I have asked many questions here but they don't get answered.

And by the way for anyone reading along, David was not studied in the age of accountability stuff, that is* new* a theory developed when people more recently rejected infant baptism as a *Gift* and turned baptism into something you do out of *obedience*.

David *knew* the faith, he BELIEVED in the coming Messiah. Study what he *actually* knew,(not what people say about it today from their lens) and you will see no age of accountability. But that he trusted God's word and knew his child was saved just like him, and not for being young enough.




AGAIN


This new theory that is not stated anywhere in the Bible called the "age of accountability" by some, would mean that there are two ways now to get to heaven.

One, belief in Christ.

Two, being young enough.


It is logical that the age of reason brought about this new age of accountability stuff because many good Christians now being taught 500 years ago that Baptism doesn't *do* anything by a lawyer steeped in Logic, worried now that their children must be doomed to Hell, if Baptism does nothing and it all boils down to "did we choose Christ or not" That is to say, if it all boils down to my action.

By the way there is no Sinner's Prayer in the Bible either, and I have good news for you! By the time you prayed for Jesus to come in to your heart, HE was already there! Only the converted heart desires the things of God before that moment of conversion through the Word of God bringing us faith, we are enemies of God, and wouldn't want Him in our hearts, our "wanting" is proof we are already converted!!!

:)




AGAIN


One verse doesn't ever cancel out another, so where one *seems* to see something like in Acts, you have to then read every verse about Baptism in order to understand baptism and in Acts the "mandate" or requirements" or structure of baptism is not being formed.

Read every verse and chapter that mentions baptism in context and in full, but also read every verse that says to "wash with water" since Baptizio means "to wash with water".






Here you go, again this is very interesting, the Bible tells us that Baptism IS DOING SOMETHING!

: )


(Collosians 2 verse 11...
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands.


Who is it that can bury himself with Christ by an act of obedience?

lol


God baptizes us with His word. It's an application of God's grace, just as the thief on the cross has God's grace and just as a baby in the womb has God's grace when he hears the word of God in the womb as the parents have been faithful to hear the preaching of the word.


Now back to your gift analogy. What beggar in the street can DECIDE to be given a gift? When he looks at me walking can he decide that I should give him a gift of money or food?

No.

The beggar in the street doesn't *decide* to GET the gift.

It is dumped in his lap, and if he wants to he can reject it!

The Giver decides to give, the giver has the power and authority and to make any positive action toward the recipient. The recipient can ONLY reject it, because once the gift is tossed in his lap he can then toss it out. Or keep it, but he hardly gets credit for achieving something that was the action of another, the Giver.

Who is it that gets a gift on Christmas morning and says "look at what accepted!"

No, lol, they say "look what my mom gave me!"

Emphasis on the giver or the gift, not the action of accepting it. YOu do however every now and then here some boast about rejecting a gift from so and so ...


Rejecting is our action.

Getting a gift is the action and activity of the giver!


Think of it like this, you are drowning and someone tosses you a life line, do you then say "look at how well I held onto the lifeline!"

No.


Better still, we are told we are dead in our sins, before our conversion.

Dead means something!

What corpse can decide to live?

No dead decaying corpse can make a decision for Christ. By the time our pride THINKS we have DECIDED for Christ we were already converted moments before! (Or perhaps years before when you were baptized as an infant but now are beginning to see the fullness of God's grace toward you.)


The moment you are finally aware of how undeserving you are of this promise of forgiveness and eternal life, is not the moment you were saved. Just because you are finally aware of it doesn't mean that is any big task on your part, but it is however the work of the Holy Spirit in you and good fruit. But God gets all the credit even for that.

Many verses on repenting in the Bible when you read the Greek, but not just strongs greek, but greek and knowing how the grammar rules work, you can see that we are passive recipients of "repenting"

The greek makes clear that we were caused to repent, it happened to us.

God did it, our sinful pride in that action must also be pushed away. God gets the credit for that repenting you did, He caused it in you.

: )

This post was edited on Dec 21, 2017 07:46 AM

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

The age of accountability is not a phrase one will see in the pages of Scripture, any more than the Trinity is a phrase one will see.

It is a teaching one learns from Scripture.

It is not based on youth but on one's ability to knowingly commit sin (versus the fact that we all are born into Adam's sin, although all have not yet knowingly committed sin).

Another critically important category other than infants is mentally handicapped folks. Some of them are like 2 year olds their whole life. (Some are deaf, frankly.)

Re: our belief being of God...
>>>>> God gets the credit for that repenting you did, He caused it in you.<<<<<

The inescapable result is that those who do NOT get saved, and go to Heaven, but end up in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels, were put there by God Himself, who did not cause in them belief.

What a horrific thing that would be, and how utterly contrary to God's nature and purpose, Who would not have any man to be lost but would have all come to repentance; and Who so loved the world that He sent His Son that whosoever believed in Him might have eternal life.

God has not created machines that He controls, saving some and da*ning some. (But the devil does do that, and so does his handiwork on earth, forces like Communism, North Korean juche, Na....zi...ism, etc.)

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

Luther was an Augustinian. Augustine had his beliefs in our ultimate destiny having already been decided, beyond our own action, PRIOR TO being saved. It is a pagan, fatalistic concept. He retained those beliefs when he was converted and mingled them with Christianity.

If you've perhaps seen the film Lawrence of Arabia, it is seen even there, among Arabs (definitely not Lutherans, Presbyterians, or any other group of Christians among them). When Lawrence heads to the desert to rescue a man who fell behind, everyone is horrified because obviously, he will die in the desert since "it is written." And when later it is lawrence himself who must shoot the man for treachery and thievery, everyone is quite satisfied because after all, "It was written." Lawrence thwarted what God had "written" by trying to rescue him from the desert.

You've got it in Hinduism. Don't help that beggar; this is his karma, i.e. it's written. He will be better off in the next life for living out his karma here and now.

It's found in every pagan religion and belief system EXCEPT Christianity, where God allows His human creation to have a will to utlize -- because HE has a will, and we are made in HIS image. :)

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

I cannot have a 4 way conversation so I just took the first post and read it and commented.

**


What's a 4 way conversation? Just curious. I haven't run across that phrase on message boards yet.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...


I've been busy, busy, busy, but was on line to check e-mail, and checked in here as well.

People who believe in infant "baptism" clearly believe that parents can choose for the child to become a believer when the baby is unable to make that conscious choice. However, there is not one scripture in the Bible which teaches this, and the scriptures are clear what one MUST do to become a believer, a child of God. God has no grandchildren, only children.

The early believers knew this, so when it was said that a whole household believed on the Lord and was baptized, they knew this did not include babies. People in generations after them made up this teaching because they read into the scriptures what is not taught.

To say that an infant can be "baptized" and then be considered a believer is to re-define the Biblical definition of baptism just as blasphemers have re-defined the Biblical definition of marriage to mean something never seen and never taught in God's Word, completely alien to His will.

It is a very serious thing to add to God's Word what is not written therein. Christ Jesus said that He removes people's names from the Lamb's Book of Life for doing that.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

^^^^


Yes.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

I'm not really interested in joining the debate, as it seems kind of useless on a forum like this. I just wanted to share the chapter I'm reading in "Respectable Sins" by Jerry Bridges. Here he is speaking about the pride of correct doctrine.

"Closely akin to moral pride is doctrinal pride, the assumption that whatever my doctrinal beliefs are, they are correct, and anyone who holds to another belief is theologically inferior. Those of us who care about doctrine at all are susceptible to this form of pride. It doesn't matter if we are Arminians or Calvinists, whether we subscribe to Dispensational or Covenant theology, we tend to think our doctrinal beliefs are the correct ones and look with some disdain on those whose beliefs are different from ours........If your Calvinism or Arminianism or dispensationalism, or your view concerning the end times, or your disdain for all doctrinal beliefs causes you to feel doctrinally superior to those who hold other views, then you are probably guilty of the sin of doctrinal pride. I'm not suggesting that we should not seek to know the truths of Scripture and develop doctrinal convictions about what the Scriptures teach; I AM SAYING WE SHOULD HOLD OUR CONVICTIONS IN HUMILITY, REALIZING THAT MANY GODLY AND THEOLOGICALLY CAPABLE PEOPLE HOLD OTHER CONVICTIONS(emphasis mine). 1 Corinthians 8:1b "Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies." Ask God to enable you to hold your convictions with a genuine spirit of humility. "

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Wooops I gave you the wrong Bible verse...it was Mark 10 vs 15 that speaks of infant faith...

I'm not really interested in joining the debate,



----



But......

:o)

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